Jane Lake Makes a Mistake

You belong to a cult, don't you? Only someone who has been brainwashed by religion could say something like that.

Political parties, organizations like the ACLU and Planned Parenthood, corporations, universities etc are all cults, brainwashing those who will listen on a daily basis. Religion if anything is a master deprogramming facility. I am not driven by religion. I am driven by what is innately good in all of us!

Why? That is the one question religious people attack the skeptics with, “Why?” as in “if there is no god, why do we do anything” Ironically it is also a question that can be easily posed to religious people. In this instance, Why would god “falsify” carbon dating? I’m sorry but your position makes no sense to me.
As to your initial to positions 1) science is flawed and rewritten every day, and
2)Science is 1 part chemistry and 2 parts alchemy. I’d agree that science is flawed, certainly the creation of a flawed people would contain flaws I however don’t see rewrites as a flaw, or in any sort of negative light. It is changing evolving, coming closer to the truth. And since we are comparing the two, religions change and are rewritten daily as well. examples of this are the when catholic church renounced the idea of Copernicus being a heretic, which he had previously been accused of for nearly 300 years. If you want another example just simply look at the number of religions out there. There are thousands of denominations of Christian religions alone. Obviously they have differing idea, and evolving ones. Also you are talking about the scientific community as a whole. Yet if I were to liken Christians to Islamic people to Hindus to Buddhists, (essentially what you have done by lumping all of science together) can you not say that there are differing opinions or that religion is rewritten every day? As to your second point “Science is 1 part chemistry and 2 parts alchemy” …so what? I assume you reference alchemy because it was an attempt to create gold, or in modern cases, money through scientific means. But so what? Religion is for profit, more often then not. Science shouldn’t be? Also I guess they didn’t teach you in your fancy ivy league school that chemistry grew out of alchemy…..

The idea that science is a hallucination…. The definition of science, in the broadest sense is a system of thought that can analyze natural phenomenon and make predictions about the future that come true. Science does this near constantly. Astronomers predict asteroid sightings, eclipses, and comets. Meteorologists study the weather and make usually accurate forecasts, though it is a very complex science and there are a lot of variables so they cannot always be accurate. Their record is pretty good though. Medical doctors are able to predict when babies are born, science never could accurately. They also can treat diseases, when has religion ever been able to do that. Btw don’t reply with Jesus Christ, I mean in modern times. Say the last 500 years.

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Evolution Vs Creation, Stem cells, Cloning, Abortion and more are all issues that have been clouded and manipulated by scientists that have professional and economic reasons to overlook the most basic moral and religious arguments.
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These issues have been clouded, or manipulates by scientists how? I would postulate that these issues have been manipulated by politicians, being that “manipulate” simply means “used.” How have scientists “used” the issues you listed? Scientists have taken stands on these issues yes, some in opposition of Christianity and some not. Yes I used Christianity here, because that is what you are talking about. You aren’t talking about any other faith because you think by including them by using the term “religious” that you are not coming from a narrowly Christian belief system, yet you clearly are, seeing as many religions don’t have a problem with the idea of evolution, or stem cell research. Yet you ironically ignored another “red button issue” here. The death penalty. Many American Christians are for the death penalty, but consider themselves “pro-life”. What foolishness. Your god was sentenced to death and executed yet they learn nothing from his example that the death penalty is wrong. Many Christians ignore their faith and support this belief in vengeance, where as their god taught them forgiveness. Clearly religion and religious people, aren’t as “unclouded” as you seem to think.

Last point. As far as “science has given us false hope”…..when… I would certainly argue that religion gives us false hope constantly by describing things no human could know, like what its like after death. But how has science led us on?
Pat

Pat:

Why would God "falsify" carbon dating?

I will ask. Thanks for the question.

I am not comparing religion (Christianity or otherwise) with science as you imply. I merely pose that science is what "man" wants to make of it and the ends rarely justify the means.

Clearly you don't understand what an hallucination is. Science merely justifies what we are capable of seeing and understanding. It does not touch the surface of that which we can't fathom or touch (like heaven).

Religions don't have problems with issues, people do!

Nobody who truly respects life is for the death penalty. You are correct to say that one should be pro-life on all issues!

Science dehumanizes us by reducing our existence to the years we walk on this Earth. You can know life after death if you want to. You just have to clear away the science.

I didn't leave that comment, I promise you that someone has nothing better to do than to do something as childish and clearly mentally unstable as that.

I followed the link in my site meter to this comment. Good god I'm afraid to see what other damange was done in the name of luncy.

What Ivy Leauge college did you attend so that I may check the past enrollment for your name? (just to check your honesty)

John:

JetPass had his identity stolen here. The less you know about me the better. Who are you anyway?

I wasn't saying Ivy League to brag, by the way. I barely squeaked through.

Then don't post the school here. Email it to me at ccsrep@mail.com. You have mentioned it twice. Many times people make such claims falsely as an aside in order to establish credibility. To be frank, I don't believe you are being truthful and if I find you are I will post it here as a confirmation to the world and apologize for my skepticism, if not, I will ask that you please be more truthful in the future.

Jane.

Wow, how tongue in cheek of you, “I don’t know why god would [do as I’ve implied he may do] but I’ll as him”

“ I am not comparing religion (Christianity or otherwise) with science as you imply. I merely pose that science is what "man" wants to make of it and the ends rarely justify the means. ” Science has a very clear ethical position on “the ends justifying the means” some scientists have not heald to this tradition, that is true, but by and large their track record is far better then the religious. *chough* crusades *cough* ahem, Nazism, Zionism, fundamentalism. Religion is often the excuse for mass murder, yet for what? Clearly the ends justify the means for the religious.

Your incorrect, I do understand what a hallucination is, however I must again point you back towards the motivations of your almighty. The motivations of the scientist is clear, to make money and to make society better, and for the most part society is better for science. I understand you think that science is a hallucination brought on by god. However why? You haven’t even posed a motive. Yet, if we use a dictionary definition of “hallucination” it is “1) The sensory perception of something that does not exist.” (wiktionary.org) clearly it implies that the things we can perceive and record are real. A more scientific definition of a hallucination is “a sensation of feeling without external stimuli” (can’t cite this one, it’s mine) Though I would say the two definitions are similar. Now you are saying, implying atleast, that the real world, the common world, the world so clearly not a hallucination (because it is a shared perception) is the hallucination yet religion provides you with a “real view.” I would point out that it is far more likely that religious beliefs are hallucinations, that the thought of an afterlife is a hallucination and that the belief in god is rooted firmly in hallucination. Being that it is not a shared experience, and there is no measurable external stimuli for this feeling.


“Religions don't have problems with issues, people do!” Oh so there are religions made without people? Also I was simply replying to your point that “scientists use issues” clearly you haven’t addressed my point and so I wont bother to respond any further.

“Science dehumanizes us by reducing our existence to the years we walk on this Earth. You can know life after death if you want to. You just have to clear away the science.”

Strange how you can feel that way considering all human experience occurs on earth. Religion does grant us a sense of self importance though. As if we are all pieces in a cosmic chess game to the life, or death. But a sense of importance is not the only human quality, so is a sense of compassion, exploration, and humility. Yes maybe the thought that “I’m not really that special” is scary, yet what is scarier, that or the feeling of pettiness that follows with religion. For if there is a god, then why? Why pain? Why suffering? Why even creation? For most certainly if god is as you assumed, all powerful, why would god need us, or even want us around? Religion has never answered these questions, it just gives us a distracting story. “Well you see, there was this guy. He lived a hundred years ago. And everyone that ever knew him is dead, but I was told by someone, who was told by someone that he was a really good guy. Some say he cured diseases with only a touch. He turned water into wine. He was a revolutionary, he attacked merchants in the temple, and when he was arrested his followers fought to protect him. One of the police officers arresting him even lost an ear. But its cool cause he healed the guy. Then, get this they killed him and he came back from the dead. Yeah 3 days later, oh by the way everything about this story is all threes, even when he really died on a Friday evening, and was resurrected early Sunday morning two days its really three days. But yeah so he came back to life, and his mother who probably should have been dead, cause the average life expectancy was in the 30s and she was easily 45 by this time. She witnessed the miracle, and is the only human being to never die, but she’s in heaven…without ever dying. Oh yeah, heaven is this cool place where god lives. The devil doesn’t though, because he rejected god, or something. Even though the devil knew god was all powerful he still fought against god and now he still fights him using us in the cosmic battle between good and evil” …great story….. sounds like something right out of an L. Ron Hubbard. But really? Why? Religion is a story. Science is a way of thought.

Pat

You actually graduated from an Ivy League institution? Which one is that? What? They don't teach critical thinking in college anymore?

Medical science has made advances that prolong our lives that have been shortened by modern technology???

You know, if you studied history at all, you would have known that throughout most of human history, life was very short and brutish. That people would live past their 60's and 70's and enjoy productive lives would have been very unusual. Sure there are toxins being made by modern industry that should be removed, but I bet you that if I put you on a farm in the Middle Ages, you'd be begging to be transported back to current times.

Moreover, if you have read history at all, you would have seen that anytime that religious fanaticism takes over empirical and rational society, that society heads for a fall. Examples, Spain after the Inquisition, France after the expulsion of the Hugenots.

I work for an organisation that helps diagnose TB in HIV+ patients.
What I do is science.
Does God control it all?

Well - if he does, I would like to see any Christian come into the townships here and witness the suffering "He" is responsible for.

Science is there to help those who are in need. Not those who want pesticides. What a shallow view you have.

Flo:

I am not saying science does no good. I'm saying it is a construct to try to answer questions whose answers are elsewhere, and some that should not be answered at all.

I applaud your work and what you are able to do.

I can see more clearly by the posts here that people fear the possibility that things are different than they might think.

I don't think it's a case of a fear of things being different from how we imagine.

I just think you're very wrong in your assertions.

But that's the thing with religion - it's all smoke and mirrors - it's very easy to say anything, since you can't be proven wrong.
At least scientists put their beliefs on the line to be questioned.